Why not microapartments instead of vanlife?

I’m trying to understand why vanlife has become so popular, rather than microapartment living.

The advantages of the latter are obvious - you can get an easier to park vehicle with better mpg (assuming the microapartment provides parking space) and lower insurance costs, you can have long-term connections to electric, water, internet, possibly gas, and Internet. You don’t have to worry about stealth parking and fines, and, even if you have to share a laundry room (in some cases), full size washers and driers would be a big time saver. Also, you don’t lose your home while the vehicle is being serviced. And you don’t have to be worried someone will steal your home.

I suspect that where microapartments are legal and available, living in one can be about the same cost as living in a van. (Am I wrong?)

Of course, vanlife might make it easier to travel long distances, especially if you appreciate the outdoors, or if your work takes you to more than one distant place for periods of time, but that could be pretty expensive in a large van.

So are zoning laws that prohibit microapartments the main reason people choose vanlife?

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I should clarify that I am talking about otherwise equally well designed and sized microapartments and vans. Maybe 100-200 square feet. Fold down futon & desk, shower, toilet, sink, kitchenette (counter space for a burner, and basic food prep, microwave, toaster oven, cabinets for food and appliances, refrigerator/freezer). And of course heating and A/C.

I forgot to mention that microapartments normally have the advantage of long-term connection to a sewer system. I would consider that a huge plus. Also, trash pickup. And a real mailbox.

I don’t know enough to know whether household pests and inter-apartment noise are a soluble problem in reasonably affordable microapartments.

Neither microapartments nor vanlife would be perfect for me right now. I have kayaks, a bike, and I would love to have my own full size refrigerator/freezer, a washer, drier, and a dish washing machine. I’d need to get rid of a lot of old stuff, but I probably should anyway.

But living in a shared house as I do now with a bunch of guys who don’t keep the kitchen clean is imperfect too. I love having a yard in which to put my kayaks, but yards require maintenance.

I can’t afford to rent or buy a full size home. I could afford an old used mobile home - but ground rent and the cost of connections now runs maybe $1000-2000/month, and is rapidly going up.

Part of my problem is that I like being near a full size supermarket and shopping center, doctors and a hospital, a public swimming pool & whirlpool bath. And I want a safe neighborhood.

I never heard of a micro apartment before

In cities, generally “micro-apartments” are referred to as Studios or Efficiencies. I don’t know the prevalence of this style of housing in smaller cities, but in larger metropolitan areas, they are common. Here in Chicago, you’re looking at starting at 600/mo and that’s with a shared bathroom (think dorm) and in "less desirable areas… You want convenience or a better neighborhood and you start at 850 (and that’s hard to find and it could still be a dump). And in most cases, the rent doesn’t include utilities beyond water/sewer, so you put extra for parking, heat/ac, electric, cable/internet, etc…

Oh, and your basic appliances may be a compact fridge and stove, no microwave.

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Greetings!

An RV of your choosing, in a monthly RV park with full hookups, seems like the best bang for a buck currently.

Cheers!


"Home is where the heart is. That's the story morning glory!" ~ Better Choices



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Around where I live, studios and efficiencies are larger & more expensive than “micro-apartments” would be.

RV site rentals are more expensive here than small apartments.

I also looked into “extended stay” facilities - sometimes cheaper than hotels and motels, or Bed & breakfasts, but still more expensive than the room I rent in a private house.

But you have to be very careful about any rentals here. AFAICT, most of the ads in Craigslist are dishonest here. The people showing the place don’t own it and have no right to rent it, and disappear after you pay, or the landlord collects a lot of fees from people for background checks, but doesn’t let most of them in. A basic background check is actually quite cheap - a few dollars for a public records search. But a lot of the apartment complexes want $50-$100 for that. I wouldn’t touch anyone that charges me to do a background check on me. For some reason, real estate scams have become very common around D.C. over the past few years.

I don’t know, it’s only $450/mo for full hookups in my current 40’ motorhome in an independent place, but only about $1k/yr for Thousand Trails with tons of campgrounds.

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What…living in those hellholes in cities???
When I step outside there is nothing but vast expanse of land for miles in any direction with no humans anywhere. When I settle down it aint going to be no city or apartment, Id rather meet the maker early than experience this kind of “life” in a cattle pen.

Wow. Didn’t know about Thousand Trails being that cheap. Though their current posted rates are complex. And $1750/yr for the cabin pass, since I don’t own an RV.

Nothing in Maryland… And nothing near my relatives in New York state. But surely there are stay time limits? Or extra fees? They can’t possibly provide cabin housing that cheap…

Especially since some of their sites are near the ocean and / or rivers. That would be fantastic. There has to be a catch.

If I did something like that, would I technically be “homeless”, or would the cabin be my legal residence?

I can’t really say about catches on the cabins, but the only catch on the RV part is stays are limited to 2-4 weeks at a location. But we’ve got two near us right now, one is 3 weeks, and the other is 2 weeks, so we just rotate between the two.

As a nomad, technically I’m homeless, but I’m living in comfort exactly how I choose.

Thousand trails plus the extended covers 90%+ of anywhere I want to be, so I consider it a great deal. It comes out to under $150/mo. for full hookups. Really hard to beat that!

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That’s great!

But I called them. For the Cabin rental pass, it’s 7 days in the system, then 14 days out before you can get another cabin.

To go your way, I guess I’d need to buy an RV - not just a van I would probably have to convert, though I didn’t think to ask. And I’d have nowhere to put it when I visited family. (Unless - it was one of those 15-17 foot tiny mobile homes… But I think they face a lot of parking restrictions.)

And of course housing prices could collapse virtually overnight, at which point I would have spent a lot of my savings on the RV.

Plus I don’t want to break any laws, such as claiming to live somewhere I don’t so I can get auto & health insurance. I need a real permanent address.

It’s too bad I can’t find a pieced of property that I could buy or lease at a reasonable price, where it would be legal to park a van, and claim it as a permanent address. The only homes I could afford to buy are extreme fixer uppers - which I don’t know how to fix up. Not an option. So I’m stuck sharing a house with lots of people who don’t share my interests.

I wonder how hard it would be to organize a group of people to buy a piece of cheap property somewhere there are no laws against legitimately living in our vehicles, and calling it our permanent residence. Or which let us build or have built tiny, tiny homes or microapartments, that we could call our permanent residences. Some of the really tiny homes are relatively cheap - but the land usually isn’t.

Someone I know bought a cabin on the side of a mountain for $25,000 (I think), including a few hundred acres, a few miles from a Walmart, with cell network & wireless Internet access. You need hard core 4WD to get there (he used an ATV), and no ambulance would go there in an emergency. But he had to fix it up (he was a building contractor), and add solar power and a well. Plus, I have no idea how to look for that sort of thing, try to figure out the zoning laws, or guess what it would cost to fix it up. And I’m not sure I want to be that isolated.

Escapee’s can give you a legit permanent address in multiple states…

I’ve been using iPostal, and they’ll scan any important mail in and email it to me, or forward it to wherever I want.

There’s cheap land out there, but zoning laws usually kill them for our purposes.

Thousand Trails is fairly new to me, but if I’m somewhere there isn’t a TT campground nearby, I just park in residential neighborhoods, sometimes by a vacant lot, or by a large apartment complex, where the overflow parking parks on the street. On the street in front of churches is sometimes good too.

Most places seem to have a 72 hour time limit, so I just make sure that every 3rd day, I spend some time elsewhere, like a park, lake, river, etc. Before returning later that day.

In a cargo van, I was constantly hassled, but in an obvious camper van, motorhome, bus, or step van with many added windows, it’s been mostly clear sailing. The trick seems to be NOT trying to hide, and getting to know your neighbors. If you’re a good neighbor, they usually are too.

On the streets, the cops will do welfare checks, but if everything is clean, tidy, & legal, things usually go smoothly. If they do need you to move, they will often be able to direct you to places where you won’t be hassled.

There are also LTVA (long term visitor areas) out west, where you can stay for like 6 months really cheap. The catch is no hookups, but it’s usually places that are warmer during the winter.

In many areas there is BLM land, NFS (national forest service) land, COE (corps of engineers) land, and utility company land where you can camp for free for a certain amount of time. Again, no hookups, but free. Sometimes there is also free camping at some fairgrounds, city, & county parks.

Some people do campground hosting in exchange for a free campsite. Very few actually get paid.

Slab City is a free boondocking site in southern California. In the winter it would sometimes swell to over 3k people. Salvation Mountain is also a must see.

Marinas and boat launches can sometimes be good too.

On the street beside or behind malls can also be good, as well as small businesses with big parking lots. (only with written permission.) On the street by larger motel chains can be good too, especially with my bus.

Mobile home parks sometimes have daily, weekly, & monthly spots available. I’ve stayed at many for under $500/mo including full hookups. I often did this if I needed a residential & mailing address for official stuff. Cheap month to month rent with no credit or background checks. Sometimes a refundable deposit though.

Many small towns have no house mail service, but might have a post office. I have given them the address of vacant lots, and they collected any mail for me. I have also used vacant lots as residential addresses then listed a separate mailing address.

If we think like nomads instead of the housed, things can become pretty easy fairly quickly.

I’m not a lawyer, but it seems it’s a bit more complicated than that.

I was looking at websites like
https://escapees.com/establishing-domicile-for-rvers
Camper For Full Time Living: Why Is Living In An RV Illegal?

It seems that mailing services like Escapees may not offer you a completely legit domicile or residence, because governments are starting to realize they aren’t places you live. Sometimes, in the U.S., a past state of residence (and local governments?) decide they have a right to tax you, and register your vehicles.

Also, you probably had to lie to your auto and perhaps health insurance companies. So they could void your insurance.

And it’s become easier and easier to figure out where you and/or your vehicle actually are. There are traffic cameras and neighborhood watch cameras and cell phones everywhere, and there are the Google mapping cars, Internet routers, cell phone networks, and satellites.

There have always been various types of reason some people didn’t have a permanent home. Not just people homeless because they are poor, but also RVers who travelled seasonally, or for other reasons, performers who are constantly on tour, many serious athletes, snowbirds, some long haul truckers, people who live on boats and ships that travel place to place, perhaps some airline employees, some military people, etc.

But maybe there weren’t enough of them for governments and many private companies (like insurance companies) to worry about. But with the increase of the cost of housing, and an increased number of people are picking the mobile route, perhaps in part because cell phones and the Internet make it easier to live that way. So state & local governments, and insurance companies, are worrying about it.

And your “legit permanent address” might not be interpreted as legit anymore.

So far, so good, but we never know what the future might bring…

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